ENN Election Platforms Chat — Foreign Affairs
- Thread starter HEM
- Start date
On a slightly related note to Altmoras' post; I am a big fan of 10KI personally. They are extremely good at recruiting, have a strong moral code and above all else are regionalists. Which makes them far different than defenders in groups like FRA, UDL and TGW. Their intervention in Osiris against groups related to the Ascendancy was extremely timely and welcome.
Kylia Quilor
Founder of Egomaniacs Anonymous
TITO is a bastion of the most corrosive forms of old-school Defender Moralism. See: Benevolent Thomas and Eist, among many others.
Kylia Quilor
Founder of Egomaniacs Anonymous
I'm not a fan of 'Raider Purism' either, Festavo. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be as many Raider Purists as there are Defender Extremists.Festavo said:
Kylia Quilor
Founder of Egomaniacs Anonymous
True. Europeia tends to be smarter about that, or has, but you're not wrong overall.Festavo said:
Skizzy Grey
New member
Defenderism is, at its core, an ideology founded upon the principle that an in-game tactic that is specifically allowed by the rules of the game is immoral. Having this as your organizing principle, rather than viewing game play as a forum to pursue the interests of a regional community (as we independents do) is naturally going to lead to results that are silly, and sometimes disturbing. For example, although RL events seem to have given them a dose of sanity, until recently many (most?) defenders felt that even Nazis deserved protection from "evil" raiders.Festavo said:
I'm not sure it's helpful to distinguish between "moderate" and "extremist" defenders. Defenderism is a philosophy that elevates tactics in a game over real, human concerns and needs. It's therefore not akin to a political philosophy like libertarianism, progressivism, conservatism, and what have you -- each of which might be good in moderation, but dangerous when taken to extremes.
In lieu of a moderate/extremist paradigm, I would suggest that we judge defenders by how they treat us. TITO doesn't like us, but they are not (so far as I am aware) committed to our destruction and they largely leave us alone. However extreme they may be in their commitment to defenderism ideology, I have no quarrel with them. On the other hand, TGW is committed to our destruction and appears to be trying to infiltrate our politics. They are therefore a threat to us and should be dealt with accordingly, even though they are arguably less "extreme" than TITO in their defenderist ideology.
Oh no I've been rumbled. @HEM I'm going to need the password to King HEM earlier than I thought, the purge will have to start now.
The first part of my plan was to join Europeia a full 4.5 years before TGW even existed, that went off without a hitch thanks to the TARDIS.
The second part where I hang out on the sidelines and offer insight when it pops into my head worked for a while, but I've been found out for the little piece of shit asshole that I am.
It's coo though, at 1 ban a second I can clear the region in under an hour since that is totally, 100% my intention, def no sarcasm.
The first part of my plan was to join Europeia a full 4.5 years before TGW even existed, that went off without a hitch thanks to the TARDIS.
The second part where I hang out on the sidelines and offer insight when it pops into my head worked for a while, but I've been found out for the little piece of shit asshole that I am.
It's coo though, at 1 ban a second I can clear the region in under an hour since that is totally, 100% my intention, def no sarcasm.
I agree strongly with this approach. We should judge Defender regions based on whether they pose a political threat to us, rather than on their ideological beliefs.Skizzy Grey said:
I personally do not currently care if Europeia and 10KI work together, but it is a fact that TITO members are heavily discouraged from associating with raiders in any form. I've seen people get lambasted for banning defenders from a raider aligned regional server yet TITO is totally fine in their stance. It's best that I digress though. I apologize for the rant. This is getting too off topic.Skizzy Grey said:
It is worth noting that last I checked XKI considers Europeia to be "an invader region", and while cooperation is sometimes possible (WA Spam Accords), and even beneficial (The NSIA) it is by nature going to be a tough venture with largely minimal results. Which is why I didn't suggest it when I mentioned them in my initial post.
I don't think anyone would suggest that cooperation with them is possible or even desirable. The point is that 10000 Islands, whatever its internal ideological disposition, has historically abstained from engaging in internal and external subversion of Independent regions, precisely because its relative isolationism. This means that 10000 Islands is not a security threat which has to be countered. That places 10000 Islands in a different category to the more politically focused Defender alliances and regions from the era of the ADN onwards, which instead seek to control and subvert Independent and non-aligned regions, whether 10000 Islands is perceived as more ideologically extreme or not (though I would add incidentally that there are many Defender ideologues who are not current members of 10000 Islands).