Discord Is Hell

HEM

former
Jorts Connoisseur
Honoured Citizen
Citizen
Pronouns
he / him / his
"Discord Is Hell"
Written by HEM Tiberius

Discord is hell.

Discord is a continually-sprawling, impossible to regulate properly, out-of-control hell.

Discord is an overseas Europeian colony that is completely ungovernable, and so far away from the capitol that any reactions on how to deal with it are often delayed and "too little, too late."

Socially, Discord has created a culture where to be a part of Europeian culture, you must be a part of #EuroChat culture. It is exceedingly difficult to make friends in The Republic Square, or by playing spam games. If you want to form social connections (which too often become political connections) you need to spend an inordinate amount of time shitposting in #EuroChat.

Politically, Discord has made governments more aloof and less organized. While lists of goals are posted in Tomlinson, the fabled Cabinet headquarters now sits mostly empty. Institutional memory has become more difficult, with fast-paced conversations on private Discord servers replacing long-form discussion from years past that still provide our leaders with a framework of how to govern. Why did an administration make a certain choice? Why does a certain custom exist? Future governments may have no fucking clue, because the answer lay buried in some 12,000 lines of text in a Discord server nobody has access too.

Culturally, Discord has furthered a culture of popularity and cliches over substance and debate. Why bother reading through the threads in the Oval Room if you can just vote for the people with the funny jokes?

In terms of moderation, Discord is the wild west. Administrators attempt to do their best to enforce community standards, but there is a far-reaching perception that there is no way to create reasonable expectations without infringing on the Charter of Rights. And so we are left with either an overreaching moderation team that slowly slides into the political realm, or a completely ungovernable set of NC-17 chats that leave people uncomfortable.

Outside communication in Nationstates has always been a thing, but it has never before warped into outside communities.

The truth is, Europeia's Discord server — and all her sister servers — almost exist as totally differentiated communities to this forum and to our game. There are people in #EuroChat who only rarely post on the forum, there are people who I don't even know who they are. There are people who use different names between the forum and Discord. There are people who hang out in #EuroChat but couldn't name a single President from before Writinglegend.

Discord is sapping us of our regional identity and lasting power. Discord is creating a separation in Europeian society and culture. Discord is dark and dreary — the absence of light.

Discord is hell.
 
You're probably not wrong, but also probably nothing will change. One thing that Europeia / NationStates was always lacking was that immediate gratification factor. You could log on, and have to wait hours for someone to respond to a long write up you made in the Grand Hall on a policy. Now you can just whip out your smartphone throughout the day, never be unplugged from the region, and keep up to date with the groups / friends / emoji-jerks that you like participating in. This is the future. It might be hell but it's here.
 
Amen.

With its sub channels, maskings, etc it really is its own small forum community. It has its uses, and I still vastly prefer it to skype or IRC but as the person that effectively moved us to Discord via fiat, it does sadden me to see some of the cultural changes it has invoked.
 
This hits home and makes me sad. The community of Discord is not the community of Europeia's forum, but they often control its decisions and outcomes. I don't know if there's anything to be done about it other than to adapt, but this particular change is painful.
 
Everything everyone said above.

In particular, it both saddens and generally frustrates me that so much of our government work which will soon become history has been shuttled over to Discord instead of staying on the forums where it belongs.
 
Legit question @ Trinnien: why do you prefer Skype?
 
Trinnien said:
Aexnidaral Seymour said:
Legit question @ Trinnien: why do you prefer Skype?
#L2Read
*smacks head*

I was gonna say, I love discord. Now I don't have to use TeamSpeak and Skype and ... And ... And ... it's been great for rolling everything into one and runs better. My b, 9er.
 
Discord made it very easy for me to come back to this community and easily reconnect with the people I knew and meet the people I didn't. It's a great medium for rapid fire discussion and communication. This little debacle earlier about the EO and recalls and abuse of power and whatnot... it may have gotten out of hand so quickly because of Discord, but it was also wrapped up quickly for the same reason.

PhDre is right. It provides an element of instant gratification that our shoutbox could only dream of (PS do we even need that thing anymore? Can't remember the last time I looked at it). I don't have to wait for someone to post on the forums to get the fix. I can pop in and chat whenever I want, there's practically always someone around.

It may be a hurdle to institutional memory. Let's ask leaders to keep a log of important transcripts. Let's ask them to keep major decision making, or at least a record of it, on the forums. Let's figure out what about this new technology can make our region better, rather than recoil because it's not easy.

We're an industrious community of intelligent individuals. I'm confident that we'll find a way to manage our server and its respective channels as well as its sister servers. There may not be a simple solution, but how often do we have challenges like this dropped at our feet? How often have we complained that the Senate has nothing left to legislate on? How often have we longed for something like in the "old days" that would really shake up the region? Discord is what the future looks like, and we're going to figure out a way to make it work, as a community.

:eggplant:
 
Sopo said:
It may be a hurdle to institutional memory. Let's ask leaders to keep a log of important transcripts. Let's ask them to keep major decision making, or at least a record of it, on the forums.
If we are going to maintain the discord style of many different semi organized servers, we need recognize the shortcomings of the service. It is not well suited to those who miss out of live conversation. It is not well suited for organizing information. I would argue at a minimum we should ask for more than Sopo suggests (sorry Sopo to throw you under the bus here). Here are some ideas that get more wild as we go down.

a) that Discord activity be channeled back to the official forums - discord should (imo) be an extension of, not a replacement for the Europeian community.
b) that we periodically discuss the "state of discord" and whether it continues to suit our needs and our community's cultural needs (as in this article and in WL's post in the Grand Hall here).
c) that political discussion on discord be limited and that any discussions about Euro policy happen in Grand Hall, or that there is a clear discussion available for people to chime in the Grand Hall.
d) that all organization of an Administration's policies occur forum side. This makes transitions between Ministers / Administrations even remotely possible.
e) that we legally require logs of transcripts that meet certain requirements (such as administration discussions that involve P or VP + two or more ministers) regardless of whether discussion occurs on Skype, Discord, IRC, etc rather than ask for them. Such records could be logged in Tomlinson for example.
 
Something I want to note: these messages hopefully won't be buried under 12,000 lines of text when Discord adds its new search features. Still, then it's important to keep messages in a central location.

Discord is a new beast, and we've got to tackle it. We'll figure it out. A texting app isn't going to ruin us. Euro's fought on for 10 years, and we're gonna keep doing it. Here in Europeia, we're overcomers.

Don't subscribe to these doomsday messages.
 
A lot of this article seems like so much "millennial" bitching to me, and more of it reads like complete bullshit.

If you want to form social connections (which too often become political connections) you need to spend an inordinate amount of time shitposting in #EuroChat.
Blantantly false. I have plenty of social connections in Europeia, and I rarely post in Eurochat, and when I do it's 99% of the time to tell people to stop shitposting. I rarely posted in Eurochat when it was on skype either, which was the popular thing back when I first joined, because it was full of people shitposting and I saw no point.

Politically, Discord has made governments more aloof and less organized.
Aside from "HEM had declared it so" do you have any proof of this, or is this just sentimental hogwash?

the fabled Cabinet headquarters now sits mostly empty
Fabled? Really. Someone took his overdramatic pills this morning.

Institutional memory has become more difficult,
possibly the only factual thing you say in this article.

Culturally, Discord has furthered a culture of popularity and cliches over substance and debate. Why bother reading through the threads in the Oval Room if you can just vote for the people with the funny jokes?
is that why you think Skizzy lost? Because he didn't meme hard enough? Not very clued in then, are you? I've been mostly absent from this community for the last six months and even I could see that Skizzy didn't have the forum presence to justify him winning an election. Activity on discord had nothing to do with it.

Do you think XIV won his senate seat because he is full of jokes on discord? Because if you do then you don't know the kid. He barely knew what a meme was before he joined Europeia. Do you think Noto got in because he's a ball of laughs? I'm pretty sure that's an argument you'd never win.

In terms of moderation, Discord is the wild west. Administrators attempt to do their best to enforce community standards, but there is a far-reaching perception that there is no way to create reasonable expectations without infringing on the Charter of Rights.
One or two senators believing this does not make it far reaching, and neither does is make it a catastrophic end of the world situation. Perspective is everything, and you seem to be viewing everything in the absolute worst light possible.

Discord is sapping us of our regional identity and lasting power. Discord is creating a separation in Europeian society and culture. Discord is dark and dreary — the absence of light.

Discord is hell.
:rolleyes:
 
Blantantly false. I have plenty of social connections in Europeia, and I rarely post in Eurochat, and when I do it's 99% of the time to tell people to stop shitposting. I rarely posted in Eurochat when it was on skype either, which was the popular thing back when I first joined, because it was full of people shitposting and I saw no point.

Neither of us have joined since the rise of Discord. If newer members want to refute my observation, I would welcome their perspective and argument. However, there can be no doubt that a big part of Europeian culture has shifted from the forum to Discord. This means, to be engaged in the region, it's not merely enough to be involved on the forum — you must be involved on Discord as well.

While you say that you rarely post on #EuroChat, but apparently you post enough to be able to say that you regularly tell people to stop shitposting. Perhaps you aren't the best person to refute my argument here?

Aside from "HEM had declared it so" do you have any proof of this, or is this just sentimental hogwash?

No, I don't have data on "aloofness." What I do know is that it would be impossible for a future President to understand tons of decisions that were made by looking in the Cabinet office. Rand says there will be an advanced search feature soon, which would be great, but still could require digging through lines of dialogue to find an answer.

Fabled? Really. Someone took his overdramatic pills this morning.

I'm allowed to use adjectives.

is that why you think Skizzy lost? Because he didn't meme hard enough? Not very clued in then, are you? I've been mostly absent from this community for the last six months and even I could see that Skizzy didn't have the forum presence to justify him winning an election. Activity on discord had nothing to do with it.

Do you think XIV won his senate seat because he is full of jokes on discord? Because if you do then you don't know the kid. He barely knew what a meme was before he joined Europeia. Do you think Noto got in because he's a ball of laughs? I'm pretty sure that's an argument you'd never win.

I've made multiple comments about that election specifically, and nowhere did I say anything that you just put into my mouth (or keystrokes, hm, not sure which).

There are multiple people, however, who do believe that the litmus test for elected office is slowly shifting a little less from qualifications and platforms, and a little more toward social relationships and interactions. Indeed, in the discussion during / after Skizzy's defeat, there were many members who outrightly said their vote is partially determined by interactions on Discord.

This is a trend that has always existed to one extent or another, and began accelerating some years ago. I'm not wholly blaming Discord for this, but it has contributed to it more than any single change ever.

One or two senators believing this does not make it far reaching, and neither does is make it a catastrophic end of the world situation. Perspective is everything, and you seem to be viewing everything in the absolute worst light possible.

I'm putting forth an opinion. The brilliant thing about a democracy is that we don't have to agree, as we clearly do not here.
 
HEM said:
I'm putting forth an opinion. The brilliant thing about a democracy is that we don't have to agree, as we clearly do not here.
HEM, I don't think NK said that either of you had to agree, only that she didn't. No need to be defensive.
 
Rand said:
HEM said:
I'm putting forth an opinion. The brilliant thing about a democracy is that we don't have to agree, as we clearly do not here.
HEM, I don't think NK said that either of you had to agree, only that she didn't. No need to be defensive.
I'm not being defensive, I am having a debate. It is possible to respond to people without exchanging pleasantries. I put forth a strong opinion because I was hoping we could have a frank exchange of ideas about Discord as a region, and I think we are — which is a good thing. No need to soften our words or balk at disagreement.
 
This might sound strange, but I agree with the notion that our forum culture has declined but I disagree that Discord is to blame. I think you and others tend over-emphasis it's use and to blame it for problems. It is really only a small minority of Europeians who use discord regularly and this community tends to differ from the main active people on the forums. When you talk about our political culture being more aloof than ever before, that could easily simply apply to the current generation and a culture that has developed over time.

An example of a more probable cause (out of many) would be the increased use of private forums for example. When I was running interior it was pretty open, but last I joined even the recruiting records were held in a private forum. This is definitely not good for reducing aloofness.
 
Ninja Kittens said:
A lot of this article seems like so much "millennial" bitching to me, and more of it reads like complete bullshit.
Holy shit, you put my thoughts into words!

I don't get this region's hatred for Discord. It seems as if there is a problem, may it be a cultural one, activity issues, or even election results Discord is to blame. The exaggeration as way, you'd think that the forums were a ghostland and everything was done on Discord the way it is talked about. If you want to see a region where everything is done on Discord visit TSP. Everything is done on Discord there, whole Ministries in fact are now run in private Discord servers.

I love Discord. I can easily have a private conversation with someone, have a public one, join in a debate, have something in spam, suggest ideas, actually vocally talk to someone and all no matter where I am with ease.

Sure maybe some things should be kept on the forums such as Senate discussions, Cabinet discussions, Ministry planning etc. But really stop fucking moaning and bitching at change just for the sake of it.

Change is always happening, and most of the time it's a good thing. You can either embrace that change,help to control it and mange it in a way you like and seize the advantages of that change or you can complain about the changes and talk about how good the good old days were.
 
Punchwood said:
Ninja Kittens said:
A lot of this article seems like so much "millennial" bitching to me, and more of it reads like complete bullshit.
Holy shit, you put my thoughts into words!

I don't get this region's hatred for Discord. It seems as if there is a problem, may it be a cultural one, activity issues, or even election results Discord is to blame. The exaggeration as way, you'd think that the forums were a ghostland and everything was done on Discord the way it is talked about. If you want to see a region where everything is done on Discord visit TSP. Everything is done on Discord there, whole Ministries in fact are now run in private Discord servers.

I love Discord. I can easily have a private conversation with someone, have a public one, join in a debate, have something in spam, suggest ideas, actually vocally talk to someone and all no matter where I am with ease.

Sure maybe some things should be kept on the forums such as Senate discussions, Cabinet discussions, Ministry planning etc. But really stop fucking moaning and bitching at change just for the sake of it.

Change is always happening, and most of the time it's a good thing. You can either embrace that change,help to control it and mange it in a way you like and seize the advantages of that change or you can complain about the changes and talk about how good the good old days were.
My thesis is that things are worse because of Discord.

You can disagree with that opinion, but to tell people to "stop fucking moaning" about what they perceive as a problem seems a bit misguided.

I've seen more "moaning about moaning" than I have seen actual coherent arguments recently (there are notable exceptions).
 
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